{"id":34625,"date":"2024-09-23T23:51:37","date_gmt":"2024-09-23T22:51:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/?p=34625"},"modified":"2024-10-04T22:03:35","modified_gmt":"2024-10-04T21:03:35","slug":"dina-berdnikova-and-sergey-karaban-we-dont-offer-healing-it-just-hurts-for-us-too","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/dina-berdnikova-and-sergey-karaban-we-dont-offer-healing-it-just-hurts-for-us-too\/","title":{"rendered":"Dina Berdnikova and Sergey Karaban: “We Don\u2019t Offer Healing, It Just Hurts for Us Too”"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"<\/a>
Arbuzz project<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Interviewer:<\/span><\/span><\/strong> I\u2019ll start by asking a question as a picky critic! I personally don\u2019t agree with what I\u2019m about to ask because I, in fact, treat things with great care and think they are important. The idea resonates with me. But… your play is called <\/span><\/span>Things<\/span><\/span>. Come on, why things? Shouldn\u2019t we be thinking about the soul? The soul! Defend yourselves.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey:<\/span><\/span><\/strong> We\u2019ll defend ourselves. There\u2019s something important behind each thing. I\u2019ll ask you to think of an object that\u2019s meaningful to you. Can you?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer:<\/span><\/span><\/strong> Of course.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> See? And if we unravel the thread of its history, this thing will probably lead you somewhere. Strangely enough. And so, there\u2019s a large part of you in that object. In our play, an object is an important trigger, helping one person connect with another and with certain memories. The object becomes less of a mundane item and more of a conduit.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Like magic.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Practically. That\u2019s what we\u2019re striving for. We\u2019d love to seep into the magical world, but first and foremost, we\u2019re talking about people. And nowadays, it seems to me, there\u2019s no topic more important than people. There are many ways to start a conversation, and we decided to use things as our way in.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Objects unlock memories, bringing a person face to face with themselves\u2014can this be a painful encounter?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Often. I think a play, as an artistic piece with a beginning and end, and happening within a limited timeframe, is bound to be painful. So that something happens to the person. I often recall one of my teachers at the Moscow Art Theatre School who said that all the most interesting things happen outside the comfort zone. What tea you like, what meatballs you fry for dinner\u2014this is all wonderful, and we should think about it because it\u2019s an important part of life. But often, to uncover what we don\u2019t know about ourselves, we need to enter an uncomfortable zone. So, we\u2019ll have to place the protagonist, and Dina, who will play her, in that discomfort. We\u2019re trying hard, believe me\u2014we\u2019re putting her through a lot, and there\u2019s more to come. I\u2019m not sure if she\u2019ll be happy she agreed to do it.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Dina, do you have an object that\u2019s meaningful to you?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Of course.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Will you bring it onto the stage, or will there just be props?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Even if I don\u2019t physically bring it, I\u2019ll certainly speak about my own things.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> The play allows for that?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Absolutely. The character is close to me, the story is close, and so is the idea that through things, we can communicate with people we\u2019ve lost touch with. Some people are still here, some are gone, and with some, you\u2019ve lost contact. Often, even when there\u2019s nothing left between you, you can\u2019t throw away a gift. So, yes, I\u2019ll definitely be talking about my own things too.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> I have another question about things. In the UK, there\u2019s a long tradition of charity shops, second-hand stores, and antique shops where things find new owners. How does that resonate with your play?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Things donated to charity are often wonderful objects that still have life in them, and it\u2019s great when someone picks them up and gives them a new meaning. In our play, however, we want these things to remain exactly as they are, just as we hand them over.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

While analyzing Ludmila Kovaleva\u2019s play, we noticed an interesting division of things. Imagine you\u2019re moving far away\u2014you have to sort through all your stuff. Some items you\u2019ll want to give away, some to sell or pass to friends and relatives, some to donate. But there\u2019ll be a few things you won\u2019t know what to do with. You can\u2019t sell them, and you can\u2019t take them with you. These things may remind you of someone in a bittersweet way, and they\u2019re tied to memories you\u2019ve blocked. Through such an object, you can say goodbye to someone you never got to say goodbye to. You can\u2019t throw it away or sell it. The playwright has come up with a museum where you can donate these objects for eternal safekeeping.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> The museum is like giving an artifact into safe hands. It won\u2019t be mistreated, discarded, or misused. It will be treated with love and respect.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Do you use charity shops yourself? Do you go there to buy, say, a shirt?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Yes, when we produced our first show with Dina, <\/span><\/span>A Children\u2019s Christmas Story<\/span><\/span>, the main sponsors of our costumes and props were three charity shops, where we found beautiful Christmas sweaters, red pants, and Dina\u2019s orange suit.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Yes, we dressed the entire show head to toe. And of course, I often donate things to charity, hoping that someone will wear them and give them new life.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Poster of the performance \u201cThings\u201d<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Over the past few years, many people have been forced to leave their homes,<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

leaving behind beloved things and moving elsewhere. These are difficult feelings to confront. Do you feel responsible for bringing people face-to-face with this pain and grief?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Yes, I think we\u2019re talking about that too. Context is important. If you\u2019re not trying to analyze the present and just staging something vague, then\u2026<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> \u2026it\u2019s not live theater. Whether you’re analyzing Shakespeare or something else, you\u2019re doing it in the present. That\u2019s a good question\u2014do we have the right to talk about this? I think so because I left a year ago, so it\u2019s about me, and about the people and things I hold dear. People often say, \u201cThere\u2019s so much hardship around us, why not focus on something lighter?\u201d But I think we already build plenty of barriers over time. Humans want to focus on the good and skim over the unpleasant.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Maybe it\u2019s a defense mechanism, a way to survive?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Absolutely. Otherwise, we would have burned out long ago. But real self-reflection lies in complex emotions. And it\u2019s better to ask tough questions during a play when you can look at the answers from a distance, rather than bombard yourself with those difficult questions. Through the character or play, people can approach it more gently.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Responding to whether we have the right to address this, I\u2019d say we\u2019re not offering healing, we\u2019re not saying we know the answers. It just hurts for us too. We offer the audience a chance to find some hopeful notes.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> There\u2019s no definitive answer, and theater rarely provides one, but it asks the question. For us, theater is a dialogue. In the audience, you\u2019re not alone. And maybe it\u2019s not so bad to reflect on complex issues in good company.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> And beyond the social relevance, this theme is universal. A 15-year-old in the audience might remember their mom saying, \u201cYou\u2019re old enough to say goodbye to that teddy bear.\u201d And the play will resonate with them, just as it will with someone who packed a single suitcase and left everything behind. They\u2019ll sit in the same room, feeling different, but also somehow similar emotions.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Would you say you\u2019re exploring the archetype of loss?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Yes, I think so. Today, we have so many things that these important ones can sometimes get lost among them. Recently, Dina and I were doing a children\u2019s walk-through play about the royal family, with an improvised knight\u2019s tournament. Back then, things were simple\u2014you had a horse, armor, and a home, and if you lost something like a scarf given by your beloved, it was a significant loss. But today, we can\u2019t even understand why it\u2019s so hard to part with a mountain of stuff. Objects often symbolize wealth or success, but then you realize, \u201cI haven\u2019t even used this\u2014I don\u2019t need it.\u201d Yet we keep accumulating\u2026<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> I\u2019m sure that someone who moves from one place to another with just one suitcase will have two by the end of the month. How did that happen? It\u2019s unclear. And that\u2019s also part of the play. If, God forbid, someone is no longer with us, what happens to all the things they carefully collected? Should we laminate them because they\u2019re part of the person? But we don\u2019t even know what each item meant to them, and we can\u2019t ask. Does that mean their possessions lose all value?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> In that case, is a hoarder who endlessly collects things making their world smaller? Is it good or bad, or just a reality?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> I remember my friend\u2019s grandmother obsessively hoarding things, saying, \u201cThis isn\u2019t for me, it\u2019s for you. You don\u2019t need it now, but you will later!\u201d Or the era of shortages in the Soviet Union, when people felt that everything might run out, and good things couldn\u2019t be wasted. You couldn\u2019t imagine that one day this beautiful Czechoslovakian wall unit would be available in stores whenever you wanted.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Interviewer<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> You invite the audience to bring objects that are meaningful to them, so the play is interactive?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dina<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> Yes, if the audience wants to. First, we think the presence of personal items in the hall will start a nonverbal dialogue. Maybe we\u2019ll even take one and place it in our on-stage museum. After the premiere, there will be an opportunity for the audience to stay and participate in a discussion, where they can share their thoughts if they wish. There\u2019s also a simple physical aspect\u2014carrying something with you all day, putting it in your bag. It starts the play earlier than the actual performance begins.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey<\/strong>:<\/span><\/span> And of course, those who think it\u2019s all nonsense and don\u2019t bring anything with them will still go home to their own things\u2026<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Tickets<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Actress Dina Berdnikova has lived in London for 12 years. Throughout her life, she has lived and worked in Russia, Israel, and the U.S. Now, in London, she is involved in various projects, including Arbuzz, which encompasses readings, literary and artistic workshops, and solo performances. Sergey Karaban, an actor from the Brusnikin Workshop theater and a graduate of the Moscow Art Theatre School, has performed extensively in Russian cinema and theater and is now working in London as well\u2014sometimes directing projects in which Dina performs. Together, this creative duo produces offline plays, online readings, and urban interactive performances.<\/p>\n

Their latest work is the play Things by Ludmila Kovaleva, premiering on October 28 at The Playground Theatre. The play tells the story of how cherished items gain eternal life in a special museum, but for the museum to accept them, the owner must reveal everything about them. We talked to Dina and Sergey about the concept of things, loss and recovery, and learning to let go.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":34619,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[86],"tags":[],"type_post":[184],"column":[185],"class_list":["post-34625","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-culture","column-letters-from-the-theatre"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34625","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=34625"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34625\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/34619"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=34625"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=34625"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=34625"},{"taxonomy":"type_post","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/type_post?post=34625"},{"taxonomy":"column","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/column?post=34625"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}