<\/p>\n\n\n\n
<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How can you tell an adult from a child? Surely not by their wrinkles?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n You really can\u2019t \u2014 unless you take the technical side: adults are usually bigger in size and closer to death.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So, in that case, is directing similar to teaching?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Absolutely. And I say this not just because, in my life, those two things go hand in hand. Both are about interacting with people. Both are about internal connections, analyzing those connections \u2014 in other words, about reflection. About doubts, about the search for truth. The tools might differ, but they come from the same field, yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you use the same tools when working with teenagers on plays and when working with Olga Romanova on Frau<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I should clarify: I don\u2019t only work with teenagers \u2014 it\u2019s young people of various ages. But yes, if we\u2019re talking about theatrical and pedagogical tools \u2014 absolutely. When I stage plays with kids, it\u2019s essentially the same. They know very well that there will be no \u201ckid discounts\u201d in terms of professionalism. I\u2019ve even told them, \u201cOf course, we\u2019re happy when your parents come to see the play. But we\u2019re not doing this for them \u2014 they\u2019ll be delighted no matter what.\u201d And we\u2019ve performed on professional stages.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Of course, there are things I try to shield children from due to their age. For example, Frau<\/em> includes some explicit language \u2014 that\u2019s not acceptable when working with kids. Adult plays may have graphic scenes, which my children’s plays never include. But beyond that, you can express everything through other means. I almost said that adult plays can be tougher than children\u2019s ones \u2014 but actually, no. When it comes to imagery and emotional impact, not necessarily.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Would you say that the audience of Frau<\/em> is like students, absorbing what\u2019s said on stage? Or is it more of a conversation among equals?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Ah, see \u2014 that\u2019s the thing! I\u2019m not even sure the word \u201cplay\u201d fits here. Technically, yes, but there\u2019s something crucial: Olya\u2019s not an actress, and that\u2019s a big plus for this piece. When Artur Solomonov offered me this project, I\u2019ll admit \u2014 I had doubts. I said, \u201cWhy not cast a professional actress? Someone talented and well-known?\u201d He replied, \u201cLet\u2019s try it with Olga, and see how it goes.\u201d And once I did \u2014 I didn\u2019t want anyone else. Frau<\/em> is documentary theater \u2014 you can\u2019t rehearse real-time reflection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So there\u2019s only one way to do it: real, untheatrical contemplation happening right in the moment. In that sense, the audience are participants. They\u2019re not observers \u2014 most of them get swept up in the same questions, the same reflections. We\u2019ve had several performances already, and we\u2019ve received lots of feedback about what people experience. I\u2019m sure that if the show were structured to invite direct audience response, people would absolutely speak up. Many have said they wished they could.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was going to be my next question \u2014 do people ever speak from the audience, as often happens in documentary theater?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. I walk a fine line to make sure they don\u2019t. They experience a flood of emotions, sometimes tears \u2014 but it\u2019s important that they stay in their own internal space. Otherwise, it turns into a debate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you read Artur Solomonov\u2019s interview with Dora Naas before rehearsals began?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes. When it came out in 2013, I didn\u2019t know Artur yet, but it struck me deeply. The text seemed powerful. But after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, rereading it \u2014 it didn\u2019t hit me the same way. Not that it became irrelevant, but the present has eclipsed the past. I\u2019ve heard the same from audience members.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Are there parallels between Dora\u2019s interview and Olga Romanova\u2019s on-stage monologue?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Not exactly. You could say Dora\u2019s memories spark Olga\u2019s reflections \u2014 that\u2019s more accurate. Honestly, we don\u2019t always know in advance what text will emerge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So it\u2019s partly improvised?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n We know the structure, but there\u2019s a lot of what I\u2019d call conditional improvisation. Why conditional? If a professional actress were doing it, we\u2019d call it improvisation. But with Olga Romanova, it\u2019s an ongoing search.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The performance is in Russian, without subtitles?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n For now, yes. No plans for translation yet \u2014 we\u2019d need a top-tier interpreter for that, which is quite expensive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Have you and Olga talked about the vulnerability of sharing such personal experiences on stage? Does that vulnerability create a kind of invulnerability?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n You see, this text is really Olga\u2019s \u2014 she says exactly what she wants to say. That\u2019s key. Sometimes I challenge her, push to see how deep she\u2019s willing to go \u2014 carefully, of course. Honestly, I hate the \u201ctable work\u201d stage of rehearsals \u2014 the Stanislavski-style \u201csit and analyze.\u201d I prefer: \u201cOn stage! Let\u2019s play \u2014 we\u2019ll discover it in the doing.\u201d But with Frau<\/em>, we talked a lot \u2014 still do. We had to find that raw nerve \u2014 that\u2019s where the value lies. Because if we just talk about Dora, well \u2014 there have been plenty of Doras\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n I really believe it\u2019s about vulnerability. That\u2019s where the most interesting stuff is born. Olga sometimes says things that surprise even herself \u2014 and definitely surprise me. Sometimes, mid-performance, she stumbles onto a topic that wasn\u2019t there before. I want us all to be vulnerable. We\u2019ve earned that right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Earned?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n The war began \u2014 and yes, we earned it. We earned it with our complicity \u2014 100% of Russian speakers, excluding Ukraine. Our story is about responsibility and guilt \u2014 guilt and responsibility. Yes, we\u2019re responsible for our lives, even the ugly, unpleasant parts. And for the dark corners we don\u2019t want to look at \u2014 they\u2019re there for all of us. We\u2019d rather just cover them up and pretend they\u2019re not there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So Frau<\/em> is essentially about peeking behind that curtain?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. And we must be gentle with the audience. They\u2019re not to blame for coming \u2014 we\u2019re grateful they did. So in a way, Olga does it for them \u2014 she pulls back her own curtain. The key is: we only speak for ourselves. If viewers find connections \u2014 great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In that context, what helps you personally not to fall into despair or hopelessness?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Oh, believe me \u2014 I\u2019ve been there more than once in these three years. What helps is \u2014 and I know this sounds lofty \u2014 knowing I\u2019m needed. That\u2019s a huge part of my work: very real, tangible help to people in Ukraine, and beyond. Specific kids, adults, educators. That, probably, is what keeps me going.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Your podcast is called \u201cTo Love or to Teach.\u201d In these past three years, where does the comma go? Is there ever so much pain that there\u2019s no room left for love?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n If someone\u2019s got no place left for love, there\u2019s no advice I can give them. I can only empathize. But often, that emptiness comes from passivity \u2014 from the question \u201cBut what can I<\/em> do?\u201d That question, so cherished by Russian authorities. They taught people to think: \u201cI\u2019ll never know the truth. Others know better. I don\u2019t care about politics. I don\u2019t understand any of it.\u201d But look around \u2014 help someone who needs it. Take a concrete step. The idea that we can\u2019t do anything \u2014 that\u2019s a lie, excuse my bluntness. So let\u2019s put off debating the meaning of love for now. We all have the power to act, and that\u2019s amazing. There are people who desperately need that action. That\u2019s all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In the interview, Dora says: \u201cIt\u2019s hard for a young person to go against the current.\u201d Do you think that after WWII, once she began to understand what had happened, people just explained it all away and she went right back with the flow?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, absolutely. That\u2019s one of those moments when I can only say: yes. Olga and I studied that interview, watched related materials. There\u2019s no evidence \u2014 apart from Dora\u2019s words \u2014 that her thinking actually changed. I\u2019m not here to pin her down \u2014 but you\u2019re right. The mainstream is a powerful force. She was in a different society, maybe saw things differently. But numerous surveys from late 1970s Germany show that most \u201cDoras\u201d still thought the same as they did thirty-five years earlier.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What does a person need inside to even notice that they’re conforming \u2014 let alone resist it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Critical thinking. The habit of questioning, of not doing things on autopilot. The habit of doubt and reflection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So what makes a person brave?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n In The Idiot<\/em>, Dostoevsky has Aglaya and Prince Myshkin sitting on a bench discussing courage and cowardice. She asks if he knows what fear is \u2014 he says yes. She replies, \u201cThen you\u2019re a coward.\u201d He answers: \u201cMaybe not \u2014 because someone who\u2019s afraid but doesn\u2019t run away isn\u2019t a coward. A coward is someone who\u2019s afraid and runs.\u201d I won\u2019t sign that in blood, but it popped into my head. I guess courage is a kind of minimal loyalty to yourself, followed by action. But I\u2019m not here to demand heroism from people \u2014 truly. At one point, I told myself: this is a time of testing, but I\u2019d rather not be tested at all. Even though I try to face it honestly, I\u2019d prefer to avoid it. And I don\u2019t want readers thinking that resisting means you\u2019re brave, and everyone else isn\u2019t. I don\u2019t believe everyone has<\/em> to be brave. People have a right to be different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you teach your students to reflect on these topics?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No, no, no \u2014 I don\u2019t think it works like that. Grabbing someone by the button and saying, \u201cNow we\u2019ll talk about deep things!\u201d \u2014 that\u2019s not my style. Nor is saying someone has to be brave or resilient or whatever. Reflection comes from reflection \u2014 from asking questions, from searching for answers. Any question that matters to them \u2014 or to me \u2014 is valid. That\u2019s rule number one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You\u2019re opening a new school, OMA. Are the children you\u2019re working with now different from those before the war?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Broadly speaking \u2014 no. The value system shifts, sure, and sometimes it becomes tragic. But if we\u2019re talking specifically about Ukrainian children, then yes \u2014 fundamentally different. 100% of Ukrainian kids have suffered real trauma, in the literal sense. I have a whole chapter about this in my book Love in Times of Turbulence<\/em>. It\u2019s not a courtesy to Ukraine \u2014 it\u2019s reality. These kids\u2019 lives changed in an instant, radically \u2014 whether they\u2019re still in Ukraine or not. Their whole world shifted. So yes, they\u2019re different now. Sadly, yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m not comparing, but do you see signs of trauma in children who left Russia after the war started?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No \u2014 it\u2019s a different thing. We have to be precise with terms. Trauma is a very specific word \u2014 a sudden, sharp change to a child\u2019s entire life and development. Are there traumatized kids in other groups, including Russians? Of course. But you have to use the right professional lens. Russian parents \u2014 especially those who were mindful \u2014 often had time to make decisions, to plan, to cushion the fall. Again, I\u2019m not saying Ukrainian kids deserve pity and Russian ones don\u2019t. But it\u2019s not the same. You asked about groups \u2014 and with Ukrainian children, I can say 100% are traumatized. I\u2019d advise colleagues to remember that \u2014 we must<\/em> remember it. As for Russian children abroad \u2014 sure, they may experience cultural shock, confusion, hard questions \u2014 and trauma, even. But it\u2019s simply not the same. Honestly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Have the texts you read with kids at school changed? I mean, math stays the same \u2014 but literature\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, I haven\u2019t read texts with students in a while, but hypothetically \u2014 yes. Classics always matter \u2014 and I don\u2019t just mean 19th-century ones, but any text that helps us understand ourselves. Including those written just a year ago. Today, there are tons of important new works we need to engage with. There\u2019s no point sticking to a program from even twenty years ago, let alone fifty. There\u2019s profound stuff in rap, for instance. Or \u2014 though not for children \u2014 Sorokin\u2019s novel Heritage<\/em> is a prime example of modern Russian-language literature. But again, this is somewhat hypothetical \u2014 our school opens in the autumn. Ask me in a year, and I\u2019ll have new experiences to share \u2014 literary and theatrical. We\u2019ll see what matters to them, and to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Dima Zitzer \u2014 director, educator, founder of the INO Institute for Informal Education and the private school \u201cOrange\u201d \u2014 has staged the play Frau.Rehearsal. The play was written by journalist and playwright Artur Solomonov, and both roles are performed by Olga Romanova. Now, the show is coming to London, brought by British producer Masha MacMinn and her company UK Integration. This raw, honest, documentary-style drama will be performed on May 4 at the Marylebone Theatre. We spoke with Dima about the play, about children, and about courage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":46305,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[84],"tags":[],"type_post":[184],"column":[],"class_list":["post-46304","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-people"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/46304","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=46304"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/46304\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":60109,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/46304\/revisions\/60109"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/46305"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=46304"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=46304"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=46304"},{"taxonomy":"type_post","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/type_post?post=46304"},{"taxonomy":"column","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/londoncult.co.uk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/column?post=46304"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}